Loading ...getting downtown with a stroller
Hello kind readers,
In the span of a week I have received two emails from individuals regarding strollers on AATA buses. I brought their concerns to the AATA but also wanted to put them in this blog to see what sort of thoughts others might have.
UPDATE: I have posted the AATA’s response to this issue in Comment #3.
UPDATE 2: I am going to be bringing this issue up at an AATA Policy and Operations Meeting on Tuesday, March 18.
Update 3: While I am bringing this issue up, this is not necessarily getDowntown’s area so I will look to the AATA to provide guidance and to address this issue.
I know this is a sticky issue that has both pro and con sides. This post is intended to share some people’s thoughts and is not intended to support one side or the other. I do not know this issue well enough to be able to have an opinion but am sure the AATA will look into this issue and decide on the best course of action.
So here are the concerns I received. I am keeping the names of the people out to protect their identity:
Stroller Mom 1:
“My family and I have returned to
While we did have a car during our time in
The cold weather and icy sidewalks have kept us from walking too much, and of course the bike is out until [our new baby] is bigger. We’ve been relying mostly on the bus as our transportation, and I was shocked to discover that we were expected to break down the stroller each and every time we boarded the bus. In Sweden, and all across Europe, I was accustomed to the “roll on, roll off” transportation- where you boarded the tram/subway/bus with the child in the stroller, parked the stroller in one of the spots that was designated for handicapped/stroller use, and left the child in the stroller.
I was pleased to see that
So I guess I am wondering what the reasoning is behind the prohibition on strollers on the bus? If it is a space issue, couldn’t they simply ask that the stroller be broken down only if the bus is crowded (we travel during off-peak hours and are frequently on nearly empty buses) or if the space is required by a person in a wheelchair (in all our trips downtown and back, this has only happened once)? If the concern is safety, wouldn’t it be possible to use the wheelchair straps to secure the stroller if the bus company feels it is an issue? Regarding leaving the child in the stroller, I can’t imagine that the baby is safer sitting in my lap, secured by nothing but my arms, then he would be when he is belted into his stroller…..
I hope you can shed some light on the issue for me, or perhaps point me to someone who can. I would love to see this policy be reconsidered. Like I said, I really enjoy getting downtown without a car and patronizing downtown business instead of driving to a strip mall to run my errands, but the current stroller policy makes it difficult to do so.
Thanks!”
Stroller Mom 2:
“I was reading the Get Downtown blog and didn’t find a place to comment that was relevant to the dilemma I always face at this time of year, so I thought I’d email you. This is not a problem I expect you to solve, of course, but I thought it might be useful to know about, since I’m sure I’m not the only one experiencing it, and it’s a major factor in whether I drive downtown or not.
When the sidewalks are rough with ice, as they are for most of January, February and March, I have tremendous challenges getting downtown by bus with my preschooler: The stroller that can get over the ice to the bus stop doesn’t fold and is too heavy to lift onto the bus. The stroller that folds and can be lifted onto the bus can’t get over the ice.
This is the time of year that I think, “If only I didn’t have to fold up the stroller on the bus!” (I think this right before I head to my car and drive the mile and a half into town.) In other cities, I hear, it’s possible to roll a stroller right onto the bus and park it in a designated space. In
I’ve made this suggestion before to the AATA, but I’ll repeat it: allow the wheelchair space to be used by open strollers, with wheelchairs having priority. Declare the space out of bounds to strollers during rush hour, if necessary.
It makes me crazy that during the time of year I need the bus system the most, I can’t use it. Feel free to quote me on your blog, if you like - In a year, our family will be past the stroller stage, but some other family won’t - and wouldn’t we like them to bus downtown too?”
Some parents might say that the answer is a stick or umbrella stroller, but umbrellas don’t handle rough patches on the sidewalks very well at all. Umbrella strollers don’t have enough storage available so that packages picked up can be stowed under the seat which makes a standard stroller necessary. Standards do not collapse as easily and no stroller will collapse without being unloaded.
A designated area in the bus for parking is definitely needed. I wouldn’t want to leave baby in the stroller but to unload diaper bags and purchases as well as to unbuckle the baby is just too much.
Comment by Jan Bay — March 10, 2008 @ 10:12 amI would also like to comment on the fold up stroller policy. I currently
have a 4 1/2 year old and a 2 year old and use the bus quite frequently to get around
town.
I remember the days when my second child was an infant and I needed to use the bus
to get to places and being thankful for the convenience of the system until I ran into
certain bus drivers that would make me fold the stroller down even though my infant
was sleeping, my toddler needed to be held and I was trying to manage several bags. Not
only was this a great inconvenience, I also ended up feeling more vulnerable for my
children because I could not possibly manage folding a stroller while holding an infant
and manage to keep down a squirmy toddler and moving bags. Not only that, but when the
stroller was finally folded. It was difficult to keep hold of it without it sliding
around when the bus stopped suddenly.
I understand the safety concerns, but it does make sense to also consider that strollers
could easily fit in the handicapped fold up seat section without much distraction to
others. I would agree that a wheelchair should have priority and that parents are
ultimately responsible for their children on the bus, but at what expense? If we can’t
keep all of our children safe on the bus then what is the point of riding it?
Although I currently do not have issues with this policy, I am expecting a third child
Comment by Aileen Rohwer — March 11, 2008 @ 8:42 amand will potentially be looking at riding the bus with an infant, a toddler,and a 5 year
child. I will once again be faced with the decision of how much will I really be
able to use the bus?
I hate to see a group of people who are trying to use the public transportation system driving to a strip mall instead of heading downtown on the bus.
Hopefully the AATA will think about the rules and consider updating them to be more user friendly. Millions of people in Europe roll on and roll off buses, trains and trams. This should be an easy rule to change.
Comment by Ryan McGee — March 11, 2008 @ 10:11 pmUPDATE: Below is an explanation from Shawn Brophy, AATA safety and training coordinator, supported by Dawn Gabay, as to the reasons behind the AATA’s stroller policy:
Strollers generally pose a potential risk to customers and its occupants when traveling on a moving vehicle. The motion of the vehicle can cause the stroller to move from side to side and/or back and forth with the potential of causing injury to others.
Strollers are also not designed to withstand the forces exerted due to hard braking and/or collisions, and there is a likelihood that the stroller would become a projectile in such extreme circumstances.
The priority seating area is generally yielded for persons with disabilities and the elderly. Wheelchairs and other mobility devices are designed to withstand such forces with the assistance of the tie-down devices. For the occupant of scooter devices, we ask that they transfer to a seat (if possible) to ensure their safety, as these devices are typically less stable due to a higher center of gravity.
For the most part, I don’t have a problem with people using the tie-downs to secure certain, more robust strollers, if the owner is willing to accept responsibility for any damages that may incur.
The problem, however, comes with determining which strollers would qualify and the time issue is not mitigated, as the operator would have to assist in securing the stroller. Whereas, if the stroller is broken down prior to boarding, the process is expedited. Making allowances for some and not for others (besides being very subjective) could be seen as inconsistent and unfair by others.
We try not to put our operators in situations where their decisions will be scrutinized as being inconsistent as the overall effect would be to cause problems with the enforcement of the policies. The overarching concern is for the safety of our customers, so our policies are designed to account for the possibility of potential risks. While the probability of such circumstances may be unlikely, the potential exists and therefore the policy was instituted.
Comment by Nancy Shore — March 14, 2008 @ 2:55 pmI personally haven’t had the opportunity to try to ride the AATA buses with my twins, but I wanted to relay my experiences from living in Chicago this summer. I was allowed to ride on any bus with the children still in the stroller. If the bus had stairs, the drivers used the wheelchair lift to allow me on. I parked the kids in the handicap accessible seating and locked their wheels, and then I stood next to them to make sure the stroller was stable. (Just as a note, we have a Graco Duoglider front-to-back stroller.) I think that Ann Arbor needs to seriously consider this policy, even if it is rewritten that strollers should be collapsed and that people who choose not to do so are riding at their own risk. If I had to collapse my stroller this summer with my 18-month-old boys, there is no way I would have made it to farmers markets, museums, etc.
Comment by Sara Ingmire — March 17, 2008 @ 1:59 pmI too enjoyed the ability to roll my stroller onto a bus in Europe. But I think the stroller problem is actually part of a larger one — what to do with bulky items while on the bus. Just today I was thinking that I really wanted to take my bike and Burley trailer on the bus but wasn’t sure what to do with the (foldable) trailer on the bus. I’ve had trouble in the past, too, with where to put (empty) carseats I’m lugging around.
So I’m suggesting that a solution for what to do with strollers would be the *same* solution for what to do with any bulky item being transported by bus.
Comment by Victoria Green — March 17, 2008 @ 2:09 pmI to have a problem with the fold up the stroller policy. This fall I had my 7 month old asleep in his stroller, the bottom was packed with stuff, I also had a diaper bag. I did not know you couldn’t just wheel right on. The driver let the bus down for us, we rolled on, I paid and sat down. Then the driver told me I had to fold the stroller. So I unpacked the stroller and tried to collapse the thing one-handed. My particular stroller is near impossible to do one-handed. A nice rider nearby offered some help. I must also add that in the middle of me fumbling to close the stroller the bus started going. This seems very unsafe, way more so then if I simply locked the wheels and firmly held the stroller. It felt so wrong to be holding a sqwrimmy baby in one arm while I tried to hold the stroller in the other. If there was a crash I would have been better off having left my baby in the stroller.
I felt unwelcome on the bus. I just thought “No wonder no one likes to ride the bus in Ann Arbor”.
Comment by Giedra Bowser — March 17, 2008 @ 3:01 pmi’d like to address the comments above given by the AATA to explain their reasoning:
Firstly, regarding the concern that the process of securing the stollers would be time intensive, I would like to point out that even if the operator needed to help secure the stroller, it would not necessarily add time onto the trip. I know that when I have to organize the children, our belongings, and the broken down stroller it takes me an enormous amount of time to board and exit the bus. I can’t imagine that rolling on the bus and securing the stroller with the straps, even with the assistance of the bus operator, would take up more time than I currently do.
Mr. Brophy also expresses concern that the bus operators will end up spending too much time assisting travelers in securing the strollers, and I can’t imagine why that would be the case. While the occupants of wheelchairs and scooters may have limited mobility and require assistance there is no reason that an able bodied parent could not perform the operation themselves. Perhaps first time riders would perhaps require assistance the first time or two, but after that should be self-sufficient. They may not even require help from the driver the first time- I have watched the bus operator strap in a wheelchair just a time or two, but I think I have observed it well enough to do it on my own.
Finally, Mr. Brophy writes: “For the most part, I don’t have a problem with people using the tie-downs to secure certain, more robust strollers, if the owner is willing to accept responsibility for any damages that may incur.”. If that is the case, why draw the line at certain strollers? If the owner accepts responsibility for damages, then let them be the one to make the determination that the stroller can or can’t be reliably secured with the straps.
I really hope that the AATA takes a good look at their policy again. The concerns that they raise are no doubt ones faces by transportation officials in other cities, yet those other cities have made the decision to allow strollers to roll on and roll off their buses.
In the current climate, when we are trying to encourage as much use of public transportation as possible, it makes sense to try and make it as easy as we can for people to use that transportation.
Thank you
Comment by Parke Wiegman — March 17, 2008 @ 5:15 pmI haven’t yet taken my 10-month-old son on the bus with a stroller (I generally walk, as we have only one car), but had looked forward to doing so, and had always assumed it would be as easy as it is when I ride by myself–board, find a place to sit or stand, ride, deboard. I was really dismayed to learn about the policy of emptying and folding strollers in order to ride. As others have commented, I too very frequently use the stroller to carry books, groceries, and any number of other things, in addition to my son, and can’t imagine feeling at all safe or stable trying to balance everything while boarding, riding, and deboarding. I’ve been very happy with the bus service when I’m riding solo, and would really like to use it with my son. I urge the AATA to reconsider its policy.
Comment by Naomi Silver — March 17, 2008 @ 7:16 pmI ride the bus most days, and I regularly see a huge disparity between how wheelchair riders and parents with strollers are treated. While wheelchair (and other assisted mobility) riders have a ramp and adequate time to board the bus, I see pregnant mothers struggling to pull a heavy stroller up the steps while being heckled by the driver to speed it up. On one instance, at a stop where there was deep snow and a steep incline down from the sidewalk to the bus, a mother removed her newborn baby and quickly wrapped him from the fierce cold, just as she began to clutch her stroller, the driver just closed the door and sped off out of impatience at her slowness. More frequently, during the winter parents who collapse their strollers onto the extremely wet and dirty floor while extricating, and then holding their heavily bundled children. This makes it impossible to also hold anything else, such as groceries or anything else that was loaded into the stroller. The bus drivers are almost always extremely impatient and rude to parents with strollers during this difficult process. If the bus service is to be a viable option to parents, especially in the winter, strollers need to have better accommodation.
Comment by Steve Coffman — March 17, 2008 @ 11:28 pmI had a rather unpleasant experience taking my stroller on an AATA bus
recently. I appreciate that the AATA’s policy is intended to keep everyone as safe as possible, but I have to argue that it’s shortsighted. I am 5 months pregnant, and have a toddler. We like to use the bus to run errands,
and by the time I’m on my way home, I usually have a stack of library
books, a few groceries, some water & snacks, and the diaper bag
strategically packed into the basket at the bottom of our small
jogging stroller. With the back & hip pain I’ve been having due to
the pregnancy, the stroller itself is difficult for me to collapse
these days, and the task becomes impossible while trying to hold my
toddler and everything else at the same time, and everyone is glaring
at you to hurry it up!
I must also disagree with the AATA’s assertion that strapped-in, wheel-locked strollers would pose any more of a risk to riders than wheelchairs or other mobility devices in the event of a crash. Similarly, strollers are no more likely to “become a projectile” than other objects, or even un-seatbelted riders themselves in such a circumstance. I agree that the priority seating area should be yielded to persons with disabilities, but I would happily wait for the next bus rather than have to collapse my stroller if the one that first arrived had no space left up front. I was happy to hear that there might be room to amend AATA policy such that if stroller owners were willing to accept the risk of damage to the stroller in the event of an emergency braking or crash situation, that it would be possible to better accommodate this large pool of potential riders. And, I do also agree that any stroller policy should be universal, so that drivers are not unreasonably burdened by having to argue their rationale all day about which strollers need to be collapsed and which don’t.
We have such a lovely city, which is best experienced on foot in my opinion, but the current AATA policy on strollers is preventing many families from taking advantage of it (especially those of us with only one car, who truly rely on the bus to meet our needs). Please reconsider.
Comment by Jennifer Coffman — March 17, 2008 @ 11:44 pmHello everyone,
Thanks for all of your comments.
I know the AATA is working hard to address this issue and that they want to create a policy that is the safest for the children involved. At the same time, the AATA does want to improve parent’s experience on the bus when they do have a stroller. Please understand that the AATA is doing what it can to address this issue and first and foremost wants to make sure whatever is done keeps children safe.
Comment by Nancy Shore — March 18, 2008 @ 11:05 amI, too, do not agree with the stroller policy. I used to ride the bus every day to work (for 6 years), and I loved it. Now I am a stay-home mom of two, and I tried riding the bus with both of them exactly once. As others have said, it is extremely difficult to empty and break down the stroller while keeping control of your children. I have a one-year-old who crawls off the second I set him down anywhere. There’s no place to restrain him while I’m putting the stroller away and dealing with our many bags and belongings.
It’s too bad, because if it weren’t for this policy, we’d take the bus often. The bus stop is just a dozen houses away from us, and it takes us straight downtown. We go downtown several times a week. But as long as this policy is in place, I’ll have to continue driving — at least until my children are older.
Comment by Jen Eyer — March 18, 2008 @ 11:41 amFor what it’s worth, here are two policies from Canadian cities that I found online:
From Victoria, BC (http://www.bctransit.com/regions/vic/newuserinfo/tips.cfm): Accessible low-floor buses allow easier access for customers travelling with babies in strollers, when space allows. The stroller can be wheeled onto the bus with the child in the stroller. Once on board the customer can:
Remove the child from the stroller, fold the stroller and store it clear of the aisle between the seats.
Allow the child to remain in the stroller and position the stroller in an unoccupied wheelchair location. The stroller’s brakes should be set, but the restraining straps are not required.
The parent or guardian is responsible at all times for the stroller and child during the trip and is required to hold onto the stroller at all times.
Strollers must be kept clear of the aisles (the aisle is considered to be the width of the distance between the normal seats, not the width of the accessible area.)
From St. Albert, Alberta (http://www.stalbert.ca/admin/contentx/default.cfm?PageId=12068&hdrmenu=4): Strollers can be taken on the bus. Please position the stroller so that the aisle is not blocked, with the child facing backwards and the brakes applied. An adult should also hold the stroller with one hand in case of sudden stops / turns.
Comment by Jen Eyer — March 18, 2008 @ 12:34 pmFor what it’s worth, we’ve used our stroller on buses all over Europe, which is in some ways much more safety conscious than the US (far stricter standards for children’s safety, for one.) We (and countless other parents we saw) did absolutely fine: it’s obvious that a parent should hold onto the stroller, rather than relying on the brakes themselves. The buses rarely come to a screeching halt, which would be the one possible situation to worry about. So the current policy, even as explained by Shawn Brophy, doesn’t make much sense, unless the AATA buses are somehow far more dangerous than European ones.
A different issue is the amount of space strollers take up: but again, common sense and a bit of consideration can work wonders here.
Comment by Anna Busse — March 18, 2008 @ 4:17 pmHello again,
Just a quick update. I brought the strollers on buses issue up and Tuesdays meeting and the AATA is going to look into what it can do.
On one hand, the AATA is concerned about the safety of the child and other riders. On the other hand, the AATA wants to provide good customer service to all riders. So they are looking into this issue. Please contact the AATA directly if you want to further voice your concerns by going here: http://www.theride.org/contact.asp
Comment by Nancy Shore — March 18, 2008 @ 7:58 pmI loved it when I could just stroll my 18-month-old into a bus in Berlin. That was such a contrast to experiences in Ann Arbor: Pulling out all the stuff stored in the bottom of the stroller and then folding the stroller, all while holding an infant and trying to keep a toddler from wandering off.
Comment by Matt Toschlog — March 23, 2008 @ 9:39 pm