Comments on: getting downtown with a stroller http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/14/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/ a blog about commuting to downtown Ann Arbor and all things therein Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:37:04 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9-rare hourly 1 By: Matt Toschlog http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/14/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/comment-page-1/#comment-944 Matt Toschlog Mon, 24 Mar 2008 02:39:31 +0000 http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/10/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/#comment-944 I loved it when I could just stroll my 18-month-old into a bus in Berlin. That was such a contrast to experiences in Ann Arbor: Pulling out all the stuff stored in the bottom of the stroller and then folding the stroller, all while holding an infant and trying to keep a toddler from wandering off. I loved it when I could just stroll my 18-month-old into a bus in Berlin. That was such a contrast to experiences in Ann Arbor: Pulling out all the stuff stored in the bottom of the stroller and then folding the stroller, all while holding an infant and trying to keep a toddler from wandering off.

]]> By: Nancy Shore http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/14/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/comment-page-1/#comment-928 Nancy Shore Wed, 19 Mar 2008 00:58:41 +0000 http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/10/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/#comment-928 Hello again, Just a quick update. I brought the strollers on buses issue up and Tuesdays meeting and the AATA is going to look into what it can do. On one hand, the AATA is concerned about the safety of the child and other riders. On the other hand, the AATA wants to provide good customer service to all riders. So they are looking into this issue. Please contact the AATA directly if you want to further voice your concerns by going here: http://www.theride.org/contact.asp Hello again,
Just a quick update. I brought the strollers on buses issue up and Tuesdays meeting and the AATA is going to look into what it can do.

On one hand, the AATA is concerned about the safety of the child and other riders. On the other hand, the AATA wants to provide good customer service to all riders. So they are looking into this issue. Please contact the AATA directly if you want to further voice your concerns by going here: http://www.theride.org/contact.asp

]]> By: Anna Busse http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/14/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/comment-page-1/#comment-927 Anna Busse Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:17:15 +0000 http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/10/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/#comment-927 For what it's worth, we've used our stroller on buses all over Europe, which is in some ways much more safety conscious than the US (far stricter standards for children's safety, for one.) We (and countless other parents we saw) did absolutely fine: it's obvious that a parent should hold onto the stroller, rather than relying on the brakes themselves. The buses rarely come to a screeching halt, which would be the one possible situation to worry about. So the current policy, even as explained by Shawn Brophy, doesn't make much sense, unless the AATA buses are somehow far more dangerous than European ones. A different issue is the amount of space strollers take up: but again, common sense and a bit of consideration can work wonders here. For what it’s worth, we’ve used our stroller on buses all over Europe, which is in some ways much more safety conscious than the US (far stricter standards for children’s safety, for one.) We (and countless other parents we saw) did absolutely fine: it’s obvious that a parent should hold onto the stroller, rather than relying on the brakes themselves. The buses rarely come to a screeching halt, which would be the one possible situation to worry about. So the current policy, even as explained by Shawn Brophy, doesn’t make much sense, unless the AATA buses are somehow far more dangerous than European ones.

A different issue is the amount of space strollers take up: but again, common sense and a bit of consideration can work wonders here.

]]> By: Jen Eyer http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/14/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/comment-page-1/#comment-926 Jen Eyer Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:34:27 +0000 http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/10/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/#comment-926 For what it's worth, here are two policies from Canadian cities that I found online: From Victoria, BC (http://www.bctransit.com/regions/vic/newuserinfo/tips.cfm): Accessible low-floor buses allow easier access for customers travelling with babies in strollers, when space allows. The stroller can be wheeled onto the bus with the child in the stroller. Once on board the customer can: Remove the child from the stroller, fold the stroller and store it clear of the aisle between the seats. Allow the child to remain in the stroller and position the stroller in an unoccupied wheelchair location. The stroller's brakes should be set, but the restraining straps are not required. The parent or guardian is responsible at all times for the stroller and child during the trip and is required to hold onto the stroller at all times. Strollers must be kept clear of the aisles (the aisle is considered to be the width of the distance between the normal seats, not the width of the accessible area.) From St. Albert, Alberta (http://www.stalbert.ca/admin/contentx/default.cfm?PageId=12068&hdrmenu=4): Strollers can be taken on the bus. Please position the stroller so that the aisle is not blocked, with the child facing backwards and the brakes applied. An adult should also hold the stroller with one hand in case of sudden stops / turns. For what it’s worth, here are two policies from Canadian cities that I found online:

From Victoria, BC (http://www.bctransit.com/regions/vic/newuserinfo/tips.cfm): Accessible low-floor buses allow easier access for customers travelling with babies in strollers, when space allows. The stroller can be wheeled onto the bus with the child in the stroller. Once on board the customer can:

Remove the child from the stroller, fold the stroller and store it clear of the aisle between the seats.

Allow the child to remain in the stroller and position the stroller in an unoccupied wheelchair location. The stroller’s brakes should be set, but the restraining straps are not required.

The parent or guardian is responsible at all times for the stroller and child during the trip and is required to hold onto the stroller at all times.

Strollers must be kept clear of the aisles (the aisle is considered to be the width of the distance between the normal seats, not the width of the accessible area.)

From St. Albert, Alberta (http://www.stalbert.ca/admin/contentx/default.cfm?PageId=12068&hdrmenu=4): Strollers can be taken on the bus. Please position the stroller so that the aisle is not blocked, with the child facing backwards and the brakes applied. An adult should also hold the stroller with one hand in case of sudden stops / turns.

]]> By: Jen Eyer http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/14/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/comment-page-1/#comment-925 Jen Eyer Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:41:58 +0000 http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/10/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/#comment-925 I, too, do not agree with the stroller policy. I used to ride the bus every day to work (for 6 years), and I loved it. Now I am a stay-home mom of two, and I tried riding the bus with both of them exactly once. As others have said, it is extremely difficult to empty and break down the stroller while keeping control of your children. I have a one-year-old who crawls off the second I set him down anywhere. There's no place to restrain him while I'm putting the stroller away and dealing with our many bags and belongings. It's too bad, because if it weren't for this policy, we'd take the bus often. The bus stop is just a dozen houses away from us, and it takes us straight downtown. We go downtown several times a week. But as long as this policy is in place, I'll have to continue driving -- at least until my children are older. I, too, do not agree with the stroller policy. I used to ride the bus every day to work (for 6 years), and I loved it. Now I am a stay-home mom of two, and I tried riding the bus with both of them exactly once. As others have said, it is extremely difficult to empty and break down the stroller while keeping control of your children. I have a one-year-old who crawls off the second I set him down anywhere. There’s no place to restrain him while I’m putting the stroller away and dealing with our many bags and belongings.

It’s too bad, because if it weren’t for this policy, we’d take the bus often. The bus stop is just a dozen houses away from us, and it takes us straight downtown. We go downtown several times a week. But as long as this policy is in place, I’ll have to continue driving — at least until my children are older.

]]> By: Nancy Shore http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/14/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/comment-page-1/#comment-924 Nancy Shore Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:05:29 +0000 http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/10/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/#comment-924 Hello everyone, Thanks for all of your comments. I know the AATA is working hard to address this issue and that they want to create a policy that is the safest for the children involved. At the same time, the AATA does want to improve parent's experience on the bus when they do have a stroller. Please understand that the AATA is doing what it can to address this issue and first and foremost wants to make sure whatever is done keeps children safe. Hello everyone,
Thanks for all of your comments.

I know the AATA is working hard to address this issue and that they want to create a policy that is the safest for the children involved. At the same time, the AATA does want to improve parent’s experience on the bus when they do have a stroller. Please understand that the AATA is doing what it can to address this issue and first and foremost wants to make sure whatever is done keeps children safe.

]]> By: Jennifer Coffman http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/14/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/comment-page-1/#comment-923 Jennifer Coffman Tue, 18 Mar 2008 04:44:00 +0000 http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/10/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/#comment-923 I had a rather unpleasant experience taking my stroller on an AATA bus recently. I appreciate that the AATA's policy is intended to keep everyone as safe as possible, but I have to argue that it's shortsighted. I am 5 months pregnant, and have a toddler. We like to use the bus to run errands, and by the time I'm on my way home, I usually have a stack of library books, a few groceries, some water & snacks, and the diaper bag strategically packed into the basket at the bottom of our small jogging stroller. With the back & hip pain I've been having due to the pregnancy, the stroller itself is difficult for me to collapse these days, and the task becomes impossible while trying to hold my toddler and everything else at the same time, and everyone is glaring at you to hurry it up! I must also disagree with the AATA's assertion that strapped-in, wheel-locked strollers would pose any more of a risk to riders than wheelchairs or other mobility devices in the event of a crash. Similarly, strollers are no more likely to "become a projectile" than other objects, or even un-seatbelted riders themselves in such a circumstance. I agree that the priority seating area should be yielded to persons with disabilities, but I would happily wait for the next bus rather than have to collapse my stroller if the one that first arrived had no space left up front. I was happy to hear that there might be room to amend AATA policy such that if stroller owners were willing to accept the risk of damage to the stroller in the event of an emergency braking or crash situation, that it would be possible to better accommodate this large pool of potential riders. And, I do also agree that any stroller policy should be universal, so that drivers are not unreasonably burdened by having to argue their rationale all day about which strollers need to be collapsed and which don't. We have such a lovely city, which is best experienced on foot in my opinion, but the current AATA policy on strollers is preventing many families from taking advantage of it (especially those of us with only one car, who truly rely on the bus to meet our needs). Please reconsider. I had a rather unpleasant experience taking my stroller on an AATA bus
recently. I appreciate that the AATA’s policy is intended to keep everyone as safe as possible, but I have to argue that it’s shortsighted. I am 5 months pregnant, and have a toddler. We like to use the bus to run errands,
and by the time I’m on my way home, I usually have a stack of library
books, a few groceries, some water & snacks, and the diaper bag
strategically packed into the basket at the bottom of our small
jogging stroller. With the back & hip pain I’ve been having due to
the pregnancy, the stroller itself is difficult for me to collapse
these days, and the task becomes impossible while trying to hold my
toddler and everything else at the same time, and everyone is glaring
at you to hurry it up!

I must also disagree with the AATA’s assertion that strapped-in, wheel-locked strollers would pose any more of a risk to riders than wheelchairs or other mobility devices in the event of a crash. Similarly, strollers are no more likely to “become a projectile” than other objects, or even un-seatbelted riders themselves in such a circumstance. I agree that the priority seating area should be yielded to persons with disabilities, but I would happily wait for the next bus rather than have to collapse my stroller if the one that first arrived had no space left up front. I was happy to hear that there might be room to amend AATA policy such that if stroller owners were willing to accept the risk of damage to the stroller in the event of an emergency braking or crash situation, that it would be possible to better accommodate this large pool of potential riders. And, I do also agree that any stroller policy should be universal, so that drivers are not unreasonably burdened by having to argue their rationale all day about which strollers need to be collapsed and which don’t.

We have such a lovely city, which is best experienced on foot in my opinion, but the current AATA policy on strollers is preventing many families from taking advantage of it (especially those of us with only one car, who truly rely on the bus to meet our needs). Please reconsider.

]]> By: Steve Coffman http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/14/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/comment-page-1/#comment-922 Steve Coffman Tue, 18 Mar 2008 04:28:09 +0000 http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/10/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/#comment-922 I ride the bus most days, and I regularly see a huge disparity between how wheelchair riders and parents with strollers are treated. While wheelchair (and other assisted mobility) riders have a ramp and adequate time to board the bus, I see pregnant mothers struggling to pull a heavy stroller up the steps while being heckled by the driver to speed it up. On one instance, at a stop where there was deep snow and a steep incline down from the sidewalk to the bus, a mother removed her newborn baby and quickly wrapped him from the fierce cold, just as she began to clutch her stroller, the driver just closed the door and sped off out of impatience at her slowness. More frequently, during the winter parents who collapse their strollers onto the extremely wet and dirty floor while extricating, and then holding their heavily bundled children. This makes it impossible to also hold anything else, such as groceries or anything else that was loaded into the stroller. The bus drivers are almost always extremely impatient and rude to parents with strollers during this difficult process. If the bus service is to be a viable option to parents, especially in the winter, strollers need to have better accommodation. I ride the bus most days, and I regularly see a huge disparity between how wheelchair riders and parents with strollers are treated. While wheelchair (and other assisted mobility) riders have a ramp and adequate time to board the bus, I see pregnant mothers struggling to pull a heavy stroller up the steps while being heckled by the driver to speed it up. On one instance, at a stop where there was deep snow and a steep incline down from the sidewalk to the bus, a mother removed her newborn baby and quickly wrapped him from the fierce cold, just as she began to clutch her stroller, the driver just closed the door and sped off out of impatience at her slowness. More frequently, during the winter parents who collapse their strollers onto the extremely wet and dirty floor while extricating, and then holding their heavily bundled children. This makes it impossible to also hold anything else, such as groceries or anything else that was loaded into the stroller. The bus drivers are almost always extremely impatient and rude to parents with strollers during this difficult process. If the bus service is to be a viable option to parents, especially in the winter, strollers need to have better accommodation.

]]> By: Naomi Silver http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/14/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/comment-page-1/#comment-921 Naomi Silver Tue, 18 Mar 2008 00:16:27 +0000 http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/10/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/#comment-921 I haven't yet taken my 10-month-old son on the bus with a stroller (I generally walk, as we have only one car), but had looked forward to doing so, and had always assumed it would be as easy as it is when I ride by myself--board, find a place to sit or stand, ride, deboard. I was really dismayed to learn about the policy of emptying and folding strollers in order to ride. As others have commented, I too very frequently use the stroller to carry books, groceries, and any number of other things, in addition to my son, and can't imagine feeling at all safe or stable trying to balance everything while boarding, riding, and deboarding. I've been very happy with the bus service when I'm riding solo, and would really like to use it with my son. I urge the AATA to reconsider its policy. I haven’t yet taken my 10-month-old son on the bus with a stroller (I generally walk, as we have only one car), but had looked forward to doing so, and had always assumed it would be as easy as it is when I ride by myself–board, find a place to sit or stand, ride, deboard. I was really dismayed to learn about the policy of emptying and folding strollers in order to ride. As others have commented, I too very frequently use the stroller to carry books, groceries, and any number of other things, in addition to my son, and can’t imagine feeling at all safe or stable trying to balance everything while boarding, riding, and deboarding. I’ve been very happy with the bus service when I’m riding solo, and would really like to use it with my son. I urge the AATA to reconsider its policy.

]]> By: Parke Wiegman http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/14/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/comment-page-1/#comment-920 Parke Wiegman Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:15:37 +0000 http://blog.getdowntown.org/2008/03/10/getting-downtown-with-a-stroller/#comment-920 i'd like to address the comments above given by the AATA to explain their reasoning: Firstly, regarding the concern that the process of securing the stollers would be time intensive, I would like to point out that even if the operator needed to help secure the stroller, it would not necessarily add time onto the trip. I know that when I have to organize the children, our belongings, and the broken down stroller it takes me an enormous amount of time to board and exit the bus. I can't imagine that rolling on the bus and securing the stroller with the straps, even with the assistance of the bus operator, would take up more time than I currently do. Mr. Brophy also expresses concern that the bus operators will end up spending too much time assisting travelers in securing the strollers, and I can't imagine why that would be the case. While the occupants of wheelchairs and scooters may have limited mobility and require assistance there is no reason that an able bodied parent could not perform the operation themselves. Perhaps first time riders would perhaps require assistance the first time or two, but after that should be self-sufficient. They may not even require help from the driver the first time- I have watched the bus operator strap in a wheelchair just a time or two, but I think I have observed it well enough to do it on my own. Finally, Mr. Brophy writes: "For the most part, I don’t have a problem with people using the tie-downs to secure certain, more robust strollers, if the owner is willing to accept responsibility for any damages that may incur.". If that is the case, why draw the line at certain strollers? If the owner accepts responsibility for damages, then let them be the one to make the determination that the stroller can or can't be reliably secured with the straps. I really hope that the AATA takes a good look at their policy again. The concerns that they raise are no doubt ones faces by transportation officials in other cities, yet those other cities have made the decision to allow strollers to roll on and roll off their buses. In the current climate, when we are trying to encourage as much use of public transportation as possible, it makes sense to try and make it as easy as we can for people to use that transportation. Thank you i’d like to address the comments above given by the AATA to explain their reasoning:

Firstly, regarding the concern that the process of securing the stollers would be time intensive, I would like to point out that even if the operator needed to help secure the stroller, it would not necessarily add time onto the trip. I know that when I have to organize the children, our belongings, and the broken down stroller it takes me an enormous amount of time to board and exit the bus. I can’t imagine that rolling on the bus and securing the stroller with the straps, even with the assistance of the bus operator, would take up more time than I currently do.

Mr. Brophy also expresses concern that the bus operators will end up spending too much time assisting travelers in securing the strollers, and I can’t imagine why that would be the case. While the occupants of wheelchairs and scooters may have limited mobility and require assistance there is no reason that an able bodied parent could not perform the operation themselves. Perhaps first time riders would perhaps require assistance the first time or two, but after that should be self-sufficient. They may not even require help from the driver the first time- I have watched the bus operator strap in a wheelchair just a time or two, but I think I have observed it well enough to do it on my own.

Finally, Mr. Brophy writes: “For the most part, I don’t have a problem with people using the tie-downs to secure certain, more robust strollers, if the owner is willing to accept responsibility for any damages that may incur.”. If that is the case, why draw the line at certain strollers? If the owner accepts responsibility for damages, then let them be the one to make the determination that the stroller can or can’t be reliably secured with the straps.

I really hope that the AATA takes a good look at their policy again. The concerns that they raise are no doubt ones faces by transportation officials in other cities, yet those other cities have made the decision to allow strollers to roll on and roll off their buses.

In the current climate, when we are trying to encourage as much use of public transportation as possible, it makes sense to try and make it as easy as we can for people to use that transportation.

Thank you

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